State Of The Secretary

The New York Times Magazine

April 23, 2006

Questions for Madeleine Albright

By DEBORAH SOLOMON

Q: In your new book, "The Mighty and the Almighty: Reflections on America, God and World Affairs," you admit to having underestimated the role that religion would come to play in foreign affairs.

People were unprepared for it. I was unprepared for it. What I grew up with was the "rational actor" model of foreign policy — the idea that you're dealing with someone who is going through a rational process and not a spiritual process.

One could argue that it's wholly rational to be spiritual.

No. Rational is logical, and not faith-based. A rational actor calculates the cost-benefit ratios of things.

You were trained to try to contain Communism, which was godless.

People my age who were trained in history and policy would always say, "Foreign policy is very mplicated, and if you bring God in, it's even more complicated."

Yes, as we know from the Palestinian conflict, which you tried hard to resolve. As the secretary of state under President Clinton, how do you feel when you read the newspapers today?

Sick. A lot of the things that we worked on for eight years have unraveled. It is very hard.

What do you consider the greatest mistake of this administration?

What really troubles me is that democracy is getting a bad name because it is identified with imposition and occupation. I'm for democracy, but imposing democracy is an oxymoron. People have to choose democracy, and it has to come up from below.

Did you see Saddam Hussein as a threat to this country?

He was horrible. But I did not think he was an imminent threat to the United States. You can't go to war with everybody you dislike. I think Iraq may end up being one of the worst disasters in American foreign policy.

And yet you and Condi Rice, the current secretary of state, were educated by the same professor — Josef Korbel, a Czech diplomat who was dean of the school of international relations at the University of Denver and who happened to be your father.

What I like about her is that she continues to give credit to the fact that my father had a big influence on her. It is quite remarkable that this Czech émigré professor has trained two secretaries of state.

I imagine that you have known her for a long time.

My father died in 1977, and I was home and there were many flowers, and among the flowers was a ceramic pot in the shape of a piano, with philodendron leaves. I asked my mother who had sent it, and she said, "It's from your father's favorite student, Condoleezza Rice."

You were raised as a Catholic, but you learned in the 90's that your parents had converted from Judaism and that three of your grandparents were killed by the Nazis. Do you see yourself as Jewish now?

No. I was baptized. My name is actually Marie Jana. I was named for the Virgin Mary. That's how I was raised. It's very hard to totally change when you are 60.

So you still feel Catholic at heart?

I think I feel some mixture between Catholic and Episcopalian, the religion of my ex-husband.

It has become a cliché to say that powerful women scare off husbands and lovers. Do you think it is true?

I don't think I ever would have been secretary of state if I had stayed married. But I loved being married. I was married for 23 years. I was very sorry when it ended.

Will you marry again?

I doubt it.

Why not?

Why?

Companionship?

I have lots of companionship. I am about to be 69 years old, and I have three daughters, three sons-in-law and six grandchildren. I am not looking to meet men. I also truly can't imagine who is out there who might be interested in someone like me. I'm intimidating, don't you think?

I wouldn't want to have to arm-wrestle you.

I work out three times a week, and I can leg-press up to 400 pounds.